A Buddhist At Heart: Actress Mary Stein

A Buddhist at Heart

Mary and Jana's Conversation

Mary is a woman full of energy and life. She's a talented actress, activist, and healer.

an Introduction (as described by Neil Dickens): Some say, Mary Stein appears to have stepped out of a Modigliani painting with her lyrical elongated features and statuesque presence, although Spielberg [as in Steven] ventured so far as to describe her as “- a Norman Rockwell painting-“. Either way, Mary Stein looks like a piece of art, beckoning to another time, place and possibly another world. As intriguing as the visual, is Mary….herself…an unselfconsciously amusing bundle of heart and brains. Her unconventional views and passion make it obvious why top directors are thrilled to add her creative spark to their projects.

Yes, this lady has spark.We sat down for a light lunch and an in-depth chat about Mary and her views on life, humanity and the spiritual front.

Do you believe in God?

I’m Buddhist so what people call god – using a word or something like god, that’s a conceptualization of something that exists…how do I say this?...That’s the conceptualization of an experience. I wouldn’t necessarily name it that, but I’ve experienced -“the tao” might be something that I would call it. Or, Buddhist might call it “your enlightened nature”.

The term “god” to me is a conceptualization of the universal experience that we all have, whether you call it god or not. In Buddhism knowledge is based on experience so I would say I “know” the tao or my “enlightened nature”. No belief involved.

Can you give us a view of going from a Catholic home to becoming a Buddhist?

I was raised Catholic and pretty much from the time that I was 6 years old I had the feeling that it was bogus for me. I went to Catholic schools, but I kinda just played the game and did not enjoy church. I arrived at this idea….I saw that my parents and family and people around me seemed to be very unhappy and I thought, wow, this really isn’t working. I saw a lot of hypocrisy and meanness. That didn’t match with what was being taught or what Catholicism was supposed to be so I just thought it wasn’t working. That’s what invalidated it largely. And I just found church really boring for me. [Mary laughs]I fell asleep when I was a kid. And also because my parents seemed that they were struggling so much, I rebelled against pretty much a lot of what they did because I thought it obviously wasn’t working. I was open to what does work or what would work or discovering why to even have a religion. What’s the point if you’re so unhappy?

By the time I went to college - I went to a Jesuit school, so we had to study four classes in philosophy, four in theology – and I had decided I was atheist (this was prior to going to school at Marquette University which was this Jesuit school), but through studying those things… I remember I had this one class that was a class in proofs for the existence of God, it was like this philosophical proving that God existed. I quit the class. My brain couldn’t follow or wrap itself around any of it. It was just crazy to me.

I did take a lot of classes that shifted my point of view into being agnostic because I think maybe in that class they had influence in that I thought, wow, there’s a lot of really smart people that believe in God, and lots throughout the ages, and I thought, OK, I’m atheist, as if I know more than all those people. I don’t think so. So I thought, OK, I’m going to be agnostic, which is saying, I don’t really know. So that was my next step and that was after studying all this philosophy and theology, including a class that I did with this teacher solely because he was the World Jump Roping Champion. He was a Jewish Rabbi. So I studied the theology of Judaism at one point and I thought, wow, that’s cool they’ve got some great precepts. Their stress on education, family - it had a nice vibe, a lot of the stuff that I learned I thought, that’s healthy, that’s hopeful.

Then I went to New York and I studied at Julliard in acting – I’m an actress. A lot of what we did was with physicality and breath and the body and we did Alexander technique. I started to have these really powerful experiences of myself, energetically, where the energy up my spine…you’re working with freeing your occipital joint, and the energy of your spine, and I’m having these experiences of being so light and powerful and free and happy just through the body work.

And we also worked with somebody named Suzuki who was a Japanese. Theater troop based strictly in the physical vocal aspect. They taught a technique where you would have these duels as actors and it was really, at least in these exercises, it was an exercise to learn to focus your energy as an actor. We would do these sonnets where we had to go in this really difficult position – down and back up – at the same time we were vocalizing and it was like a war of energies where you’re focusing your energy at the other person. It was really powerful. So, I had that experience. 

I was going through a really hard time. I had a lot of anxiety and I got really depressed, but I have an amazingly strong life force. I have the good fortune that if I get depressed there’s a part of me that’s so alive that, I don’t know how to explain it, but it just sort of more than gets me through. So what happened is that I was really depressed and anxious and didn’t know what I was going to do so I started to read – at that point I was still agnostic , and my life wasn’t working. I had become too focused on acting and everything depended on that and I let all other aspects of my life go.

So, anyway, I was bummed, and I went home to Milwaukee and I went to the library. I took out probably fifty books and I read voraciously about life, about depression. I came upon this book… where I looked at my life with the help of this book and I thought, you’re only doing one thing and you’re obsessed with it and you just shut out the rest of life. Problem. So I divided my life into different categories and I did a little bit in each category. And one of the categories was religion. I went, oh, I’m agnostic. I don’t do religion. But I thought, What’s the purpose? What’s the purpose of religion? If that’s a category that needs to be in my life then, Why? How does that work? ‘Cause it was closed off.

I also read a book called, The Variety’s of Religious Experience, by William James, who is an American pragmatist. It’s a fabulous book, it’s huge. He basically interviewed people of all religions and said, What’s your experience of God? The interesting thing is…Tell me in detail. How you know what happened…blah blah blah. What he found in that book – and it’s fascinating, and I should go get it and read it again – is that no matter what religion you are the experience of it is almost, completely the same. People’s experiences of what some people call God, or what some people call blah, or Allah, or “The Tao”, whatever different people call it or enlightened nature or supreme intelligence. In reality the experience sounds exactly the same whatever the religion is.

He also concludes, because he’s a pragmatist, meaning that if it works use it, which I love… his conclusion was that we all have different make ups in terms of strengths and weaknesses. His point of view is that everybody’s going to have a little bit different needs. Certain religions are going to suit other people better than others. So what works for you, bless it, good, yay. Embrace it. Who cares what anybody else believes if it works for you. His whole final thing is that the purpose of religion is to create value and meaning and happiness in your life. So if your religion does that for you then… bravo. Or whatever religion does that for you that’s perfect because we’re all different and whatever fits your make up is perfect.

So, I go back to New York… I’m in New York and challenged. Really challenging. Young kid trying to make it, and somehow I ended up at a Buddhist meeting where you chant. It resonated with me because of all the work I had done at Julliard. I thought, You know, if nothing else I’m going to be so much better as an actress. It took me out of my head and into my heart.

I just saw the breath because that particular form of Buddhism uses breathing, it used mantra, it used visual focus, it used posture. It made sense to me. The other thing that made sense to me is that it’s a practice. And where I saw Catholicism when my parents were younger, it wasn’t interfacing, it wasn’t aligned with helping their life or making them happy and creating value and meaning. I mean it may have created some sort of value and meaning intellectually but I didn’t see them happy.

The reason why Buddhism appealed to me is because it was a practice, moment to moment practice, based in cause and effect, based in using your whole physiology to raise your consciousness and sit with yourself to transform your energy and your focus. And then also to take responsibility, one hundred percent responsibility of your life as a creation, chanting to connect with cause within you, being aware and conscious of the cause you make to create the effects in your life. It just made sense. Like, oh, if I practice this everyday and I’m making right causes then I’m gonna get great effects and I’ll be happier. I’ll create happiness .

That really was the evolution and I practiced that particular form of Buddhism voraciously for a couple of years . When I say voraciously, I mean with absolute undying devotion. I would go to some of the meetings but there were things I didn’t agree with, like propagating, ‘cause that’s something I wouldn’t do, but the practice of everyday chanting. I did it an hour in the morning and an hour in either the late afternoon or evening…every single day. My whole life transformed.

Give us an example of this transformation.I literally made a list. I would like to play Josie in ‘A Moon for the Misbegotten’. It was unbelievable. So I’m in New York and I started chanting and that was on my list. I end up getting an offer to go to an assistantship at the University of Pennsylvania in Pittsburg. I saw that there were three Equity professional theaters at the university – a Shakespeare company, an American new plays company, and something else – and I thought, Oh, they’re offering me an assistantship, but I’m going to be so good I’m going to determine that I am so excellent as an actress that I will work in those professional theatre companies at the school and I will get my equity card. I end up going there to teach. I wasn’t involved with these companies but I did work with the graduate program, I did roles and I got a lot of attention.

That theatre company had that season, ‘Moon for the Misbegotten’, was on their docket to be done. So I basically chanted to be a consistently working, excellent professional. I chanted about that role. I wasn’t offered it but what happened is I ended going up to the artistic director… How I had that kind of balls? I said to the guy, Listen, if you don’t give me this role – Oh! This girl that was supposed to play Josie in the ‘Moon for the Misbegotten’, that was part of the company, had disappeared. She left. So the role of Josie was open. Circumstances that were fabulously synchronistic. Completely miraculous and in line with what my heart and devotion was around from chanting.

Anyway, the long and the short of it is I went to him and said, Listen, I really want to work in the professional theatre. That’s why I came and this is your chance to hire me. I may not come back next semester if you don’t hire me. I’m just telling you if you want to work with me….Now, I must sound absurd and, obviously, I must have done it with some….(lost for words). I think it’s fabulous that I did that. I kept chanting every day, every day, every day. It got less about any one thing. It was really about being a working professional. You don’t want to be manipulative. In other words you want to leave an opening ‘cause maybe there’s something even better that you even thought for your life. Also, all chanting is done with the focus on transforming your life force and create your life to serve peace and the highest good.

“The better than I ever thought” was that he called me and he decided on a play – instead of Josie in the ‘Moon for the Misbegotten’ – he picked ‘Fool for Love’ for me to do and then he cast it around me. Yeah. And it was a huge hit. Anyway, it was an intense experience.

Since that time, I’ve gotten a little afraid of that power and my practice isn’t as strong as it could be and I do other things too: meditation and yoga, things like that; and it’s on my list this year, to chant an hour every day. I did a half an hour today so I’m moving there.

Powerful Connection

In the midst of when I was so devout in this practice, which was really ultimately about my life – I do meditate every day, whether it’s chanting like that, not to the same rigorous velocity I did then – something happens where you connect and you realize, Wow, we are so powerful. “We” meaning we are emanations of “The Tao” - you call it god- or that supreme intelligence. And when you connect and align with that vein of what I think Buddhist call, “your enlightened nature”, it really can, and does become heaven on earth. You can reach a point where what seems an obstacle, if you embrace it as an opportunity and see how that is part of what you are creating and use it as a stepping stone, or it’s just fabric to create with, we have such an unlimited potential and on some level our whole purpose here is as creators and to connect with that and create our lives. Not even just our lives but create the life of all of us on this planet, which potentially if everyone got aligned…the potential is just enormous. I don’t know why, but personally when I experience that power like that, sometimes I get scared.

Last Thoughts on BuddhismOne of the tenets of Buddhism is – like say you’re chanting about something and focusing on whatever you want – in Buddhism, the way to connect it to the highest place that you could come from is… let’s say it’s something small or something petty, like the money to buy a new car… you chant ultimately so that it serves the highest good. If everything you do serves the highest good that also aligns you with your higher self and the higher self of the planet and all people and it opens this gateway.

Christianity… What are your thoughts on God, Jesus, the Holy Spirit, the Holy Bible? You grew up Catholic so obviously you got a certain perspective of it when you were younger and it appears that it wasn’t….very good, it wasn’t very nourishing….

It didn’t work for me.

Now that you’re grown up you’re more mature, you have different perspectives, you have different experiences in life, and you are Buddhist, no question about that, but what are your views of Christian people, not only just Catholics, but also Protestants, and so on. What are your thoughts on the whole picture?I don’t feel that I’m in a position to judge any of it. It’s like William James says, If it works for you, if it’s creating a happiness in your life, value and meaning, then go for it. I should say also, happiness for those around you too.

I think the different way people practice their religions - whatever it is Catholicism, Christianity – is probably different for each person. I met a man, and it was like, wow, I had never met anybody that had processed the Bible and religion as personally and effectively, and transformatively. I don’t talk to people about religion all that much, especially Christianity. It was a revelation and it appeared to really be working for him.

So you haven’t had the Bible thumpers come after you. [smile]

Yeah, but I just say to them, whoever comes to my door proselytizing their religion, I just look at them and say, I’m sorry but I’m Buddhist and good luck. I don’t have a need to hear their thing. Although I think that if people share from the benefit, their experience, it transcends whatever the religion is and I could listen for hours.

I met a guy last night at a party, he’s an actor, and he was talking about how he just produced a film and they tried to get producers and they couldn’t. Then he just went for it. They didn’t know how it was going to happen exactly. He put a lot of money on the line. He was going to buy a condo and he just put it into this film and he said, I’m committed to this, and he believed in it. It’s kind of like if we build a field, they will come, and I believe that, kind of like the minute you are boldly committed to something miracles happen. He explained how miraculous things fell into place. Those kind of experiences…that speaks to me. That encourages me, whether that’s a Christian or whoever it is.

In terms of Jesus Christ and that whole thing, I think that’s fascinating. I think he’s a fascinating person that potentially existed at one point in time. People in the circles that I travel in speak of Christ consciousness. My understanding, I should say, because I’m not really into belief because I feel that belief is something that distances you from pure experience…I would say, from what I can gather he was a potentially, if he existed, he was a very, very evolved consciousness and something to aspire to.

I got a Bible at one point and I thought I should study this as a piece of history. I wanted to have an understanding. I’m sorry, but it was just too boring for me. I could sit for hours and chant or meditate. Some religions are very heady and that is exactly what does not work for me. My wisdom comes from a more core still place that is beyond thought.

I’ll get a quote (from the Bible), somebody will send it in an email, and I’ll go, Oh, yeah, that makes sense. But, personally, when I connect with my inner wisdom I don’t need to get anything outside of me. I mean connecting with my heart and my gut and my core, there is this thing that is really like the vein of supreme intelligence that runs through us, that wisdom of all-knowing within. All the answers are within us. So, I find things like the Bible distracting sometimes, although sometimes I find it charming too, like I said, in small doses.

How important are the Arts and Creativity to humanity?

In my estimation, the Arts and Creativity are the key to being fully human. All advanced flourishing societies nurture the arts to the max. It is essential to all aspects of our life. To our evolution & becoming manifest. Without Art & Creativity we are machines and diminished. With the Arts & Creativity life becomes sacred. We can all use that right now. Especially corporate America.

A wonderful quote by Mary and the perfect note to wrap up this interview:

Follow the path of love, light, and laughter.

*Mary Stein is a talented actress who attended the prestigious Juilliard School and has starred in many film and television projects including, Babe: Pig in the City, How the Grinch Stole Christmas, General Hospital, Providence, and Changeling, just to name a few.

For more information on Mary:

http://www.marystein.org/